Clone discussion

[Chief409]

With a Dune Runner and a 5b (expensive entry cost with the 5b, but I ordered a custom build with all the proven goodies instead of learning by experience, and getting the Dune Runner the way I want it, trying this and that made the final costs close), the Redcats aren't HPI clones. King Motors and Rovan buggy's are a pretty direct clone of HPI Baja 5b, and they don't make a secret about it, advertising compatibility with 5b parts. Would I buy a clone, yes. Why not. Run it at an event like Buttercup, possibly, but not likely. And, with the Dune Runner experience, getting a 5b clone set up correctly makes it likely I'd be better off getting a HPI Baja 5b "runner" on eBay and starting there.

But, since I like 4X4 buggies, and the only other 4X4 that will run with it is the Losi 5ive, which isn't a buggy and costs a ton, I LOVE my Dune Runner!

 

[RampageHopUps]

Clones wont be allowed to register for Dunetoberfest.

 

[NUNCHUCKSKILZ]

I have been involved in WAY to many topics on clones over the last 6 years. The biggest thing that hurts us is they don't just stop at copying Large Manufactures like HPI. They hit the guys that actually support our hobby and feed their families. Hostile Rob is a perfect example. The rovan MXT for years still had the H in the tread. I mean come on. Just distasteful IMO. It wont be long with the success that the X-Series is having. Guys like Doug at 7075 and Bobby with Phatcat will be next. They have already gott'n in to the Losi market and the OG Clone family's have broke off and started other companies like FID and GTB. And to make things worse, both those companies have been able to locked down Ligit US distributorship. All because people have purchased their products under the impression that they are the same. So all their profits allowed them to start new companies and come out with their own products and soon to be own LS vehicle. Now HPI has sold it rights to GP and probably wont ever see a new HPI Vehicle. But, Hey its all good right.. Sorry just hurts to watch it all unfold and see people loose their jobs and stop making products for all of us to enjoy. All because the clone stuff is cheaper..

 

[Chief409]

Clones wont be allowed to register for Dunetoberfest.

Figured on that. Point I'm trying to get across is a clone might be cheaper, but by the time one is built where it a real runner, you'd be better off getting a HPI, Losi, etc. runner if you are trying to get started on a budget. I haven't heard much good about clone durability and the suspension would be the first to get "Genuine" parts. IF they fit.

Only thing hurting Redcat is the lack of aftermarket support for rigs like my Dune Runner. Spent lots on finding out what works, and what doesn't fit. It was fun going through every listing on the web, sorta like going through everything when I raced a 'Vette. 'Vette parts cost sooo much, then I started comparing part numbers in the Sears and J.C. Whitney catalogs, and LO, Chevelle front suspension parts had the same part number, and cost half as much! Just one example.

 

[RampageHopUps]

Yeah, my son has the same problem with his Vette. We always try and match up regular Chevy parts, since his isn;t a true restoration, just a daily driver.

 

[alfred e numan]

My stepdads friend has a stingray from the 70-s setting up on blocks. he popped the hood on it- there is an oem alloy 427 there.- car has about 10,000 miles on it. I suggested that it should have the block flushed- re-filled and drive it - not flog it- just drive it to keep the seals from leaking-- My brother in law owns armada- bill collectors.- he bought a new vett- said it was the most spendy one made- 40- 50 grand?- something like that-- Went for a ride in it- he stopped the car on a empty country road- said- you drive it. looked at the miles- it had 2,000 more or less- i said , naa, better you drive it till its broke in good. -- sorry bout going off topic- just had to say.

 

[Chief409]

Mine was a '68 427 T-top I bought in '75. Wasn't well cared for, and back then buying gas was tough on my budget. Still my favorite car, wish I had it now.

 

[alfred e numan]

That could very well be the same year car - one i looked at had a t-top also. not up on the years so much-- sayy- i have an 84 ford short wheel base van- set for 3 years- oiled up the motor before parking it- before i started it 2 weeks ago, unbolted the main tank- removed the filler inlet- nice shiny galvanised metal in the tank- bolted up a new fuel pump- filter, primed up the bowls with r-c premix- squirted some in the primary intake- lit off on the first cyclnder to hit. - looks like a ford van- 302 gram sheet- offenhauser 360- barry grant 625 road demon jr.- summit bluprinted g-m hei - full crane kit- flat tappit-chain- idle- 4,500, valve float @ 6,500.- idles with 20 hg vacumme. pulls bout 12-15 inches driving at 2,500 rpm-- Now with the help of the internet, learned to set static timing @ 16 btc, fiddled around with advance springs- There is a vacumme gauge in the dash- standard flo power valve is 6.5 hg- black spring in the vacumme pod 2ndary- yea, keep an eye on the vacumme gauge in the dash- keep it above about 7 hg - gets about 25 mpg with a good tail wind-lol.-good ol rig to haul the r-c cars and dog in-- go places- do things.

 

[Chief409]

Mine had a low rise spread bore intake manifold, first thing I did was get rid of the Carter carb and put on a Holly 650 dual pumper. Played with it and going down the I5 it'd get 27 mpg at 75 mph. Get on the drag track and it would fly. Lots of guys put on 850 Holly carbs on 427 engines, but the 650 double pumper, when you checked the flow charts was a better choice. The early big block Chevy's had a harmonic problem at 4650 to 5100 rpm, if you stayed in that range longer then around 10 seconds, the crank would break. Which happened to be the peak torque range with a 3/4 grind cam. Racing I power shifted at 4650 and never lost an engine.

Also the spread between 3 and 4 in the tranny was wide (no 5 or 6 speed trannys then), so racing it was stage in 2nd hit 3rd and next was the traps. 1st was good for burn out only. Most of my wins were hole shots, I always tried to stage first and get prepped. Half a second is a long time when you're waiting for the other guy to stage, it gave me enough time to totally concentrate on the start.

Now I have a couple of Sand Drag buggies. I'm going thru dry runs with the controller, getting my reactions set. Like anything else, practice, practice, and more practice.

 

[Chief409]

Most of my wins were hole shots, I always tried to stage first and get prepped. Half a second is a long time when you're waiting for the other guy to stage, it gave me enough time to totally concentrate on the start.

Now I have a couple of Sand Drag buggies. I'm going thru dry runs with the controller, getting my reactions set. Like anything else, practice, practice, and more practice.

 

[kur]

The way I see it, hpi should be thanking rovan and king motors for all the extra revenue. I mean think about it.. who buys clones? People that can't afford the high price of the original. Those people are never going to buy a genuine baja. So hpi makes no money off them.

Those people buy a clone, and yes, rovan gets $500. But that doesn't mean hpi lost $1000, because they were never going to get that $1000.

Now when that rovan clone breaks the person is going to buy an hpi part to fix it. When they want to upgrade it will probably be to an hpi factory hop up part. Hobby shops carry hpi parts, not rovan parts, and even rovan advertises to use hpi parts when repairing or upgrading.

Over the years a person with a clone might send $500-$1000 to hpi by way of parts for their clone.

Hpi made $500-$1000 off of a person that they would have never made without the clones existence.

 

[xscrick]

I just bought a new king motor 001 roller within last month or so for 300 bucks,,, it seems very well built, of coarse got to upgrade,, cant leave stock,, hostile, turtle racing vertigo, rpm, hpi others,, all getting my business,,, made my own polycarbonate windows ,, not complaining,, id buy a clone again,, and ddm has there 15 percent off labor day sale,, more parts eheheh

 

[Mycbr6rr]

I agree Kur. But who keeps a baja completely stock anyway ,when somebody buys a Hpi baja for 1000.00 or more and then you buy all the awesome upgrades your close 2000.00 or even more so why not buy a clone for about 600.00 and then buy the upgrades from the same places like ,Hostile,Turtle Racing ,Rpm Hpi and so on ,it would be cheaper.thats what I did with the Rovan I bought,I'd buy another one.The one thing I will say is that the stock engines in the Rovans do suck the Cy is a better engine ,but a lot of people get the Zen or Rcmk or others because stock is never good enough ,you always want more power.